Passed On: Tutorial overhaul

DeletedUser1605

Guest
Hello,

So my idea is that beginners don't get much in the way of Help in Tribal Wars.

The tutorial is excellent, in terms of the way it looks and the way it functions.. Spot on, in my opinion.

The content of the Tutorial, however, is crazy... It's teaching beginners to be a farm, for Pete's sake! Upgrading mines first? LOLWUT?

It should be teaching them to build their Statue first, if it's available, so they can immediatly start farming with their Paladin.

So another failing of the Tutorial, albiet with good intentions, is the way it tries to teach farming.. It gifts the player 5 Spears and instructs the player to attack a low-point village with these spears... This is absolutely wrong.

Anybody can see from the Simulator and help files that the basic defense of a village WILL kill at least 1 spear fighter, creating a negative in the haul, 4 spears cannot haul back the resources to rebuild the dead spear and therefor this is NOT farming, this is wasting troops.

After they get a report about the dead spear, another lesson could pop-up and say "When your Paladin is ready, he can be used to escort your Spear Fighters safely to the village" or whatever to get the idea through their head how important the Paladin is..

Thanks for your time,

//mpw
 

DeletedUser

Guest
michealPW said:
After they get a report about the dead spear, another lesson could pop-up and say "When your Paladin is ready, he can be used to escort your Spear Fighters safely to the village" or whatever to get the idea through their head how important the Paladin is..
Click to expand...

Also, it should give that dead spear back to them as part of the lesson.

Otherwise, +1
 

DeletedUser

Guest
People shouldn't be helped too much. If you tell everyone to farm with the paladin, which ''really good'' players are getting good progress with that? It's a way to LEARN thinks, not to make them perfect! If we want to do that, why don't we show them exactly how you should play, or even better, why don't we give them a full offence village to start with!

If we make the ''noobs'' get to good, it would be a waste for good players to keep playing. We found these things out ourselfs, they should do that too!
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Camelgamer said:
People shouldn't be helped too much. If you tell everyone to farm with the paladin, which ''really good'' players are getting good progress with that? It's a way to LEARN thinks, not to make them perfect! If we want to do that, why don't we show them exactly how you should play, or even better, why don't we give them a full offence village to start with!

If we make the ''noobs'' get to good, it would be a waste for good players to keep playing. We found these things out ourselfs, they should do that too!
Click to expand...

Lets go with...no.
I, along with many other good player (to drop a name, nauzhror), in general want a lot more competition. Teaching someone to farm with a pally is not even close to making competition, but it is more of a start. I say more power to them.

However in all truth, in some cases, mines pre statue is a good thing ;)
 

marcus the mad

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Camelgamer said:
People shouldn't be helped too much. If you tell everyone to farm with the paladin, which ''really good'' players are getting good progress with that? It's a way to LEARN thinks, not to make them perfect! If we want to do that, why don't we show them exactly how you should play, or even better, why don't we give them a full offence village to start with!

If we make the ''noobs'' get to good, it would be a waste for good players to keep playing. We found these things out ourselfs, they should do that too!
Click to expand...

Sorry if this insults you, but that is a very shortsighted lame vision. It sounds more like you are a scared mediocre player that realizes that a better tutorial would make noobs a bit better and kill his chances at completly owning all new noobs on a beginner world.

Why would a tutorial make them perfect? They'd still have to learn how to do things, like building a nuke. Where did we say we'd give them all a full O village? Oh! I see what you mean, cause they are noobs they'll try to defend with it so you can take them out easy, since they can't track if you are a noob or not, you'll be getting one O village too. Yes, good thinking.

Why would it be a waste for good players to keep playing? More competition is something most of the good players want? If they stop playing because noobs would be able to retaliate, which I still highly doubt if they don't put any effort in it), then they never were good players.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
marcus the mad said:
Sorry if this insults you, but that is a very shortsighted lame vision. It sounds more like you are a scared mediocre player that realizes that a better tutorial would make noobs a bit better and kill his chances at completly owning all new noobs on a beginner world.

Why would a tutorial make them perfect? They'd still have to learn how to do things, like building a nuke. Where did we say we'd give them all a full O village? Oh! I see what you mean, cause they are noobs they'll try to defend with it so you can take them out easy, since they can't track if you are a noob or not, you'll be getting one O village too. Yes, good thinking.

Why would it be a waste for good players to keep playing? More competition is something most of the good players want? If they stop playing because noobs would be able to retaliate, which I still highly doubt if they don't put any effort in it), then they never were good players.
Click to expand...

You're true about the more competition part, I can't say anything else. But the start is (to me) one of the most important things of the world. I already hate it that everyone starts spiking with their spear, but what do you think if everyone starts spiking with their pali? I don't know about you and your start, but a pali simply destroys your own spear and pali. Which means that we all got to start upgrading our mines, else we will be spiked, and then I'm not even talking about when the protection is gone, how am i supposed to farm all players, when they all have a pali standing.. They should learn that themselves..

I don't know about you, but I don't think this is fun to happen at the start..

Attacker Units: 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 270 170 90 15
Losses: 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 270 170 90 15

Defender Units: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 20 20 40 10
Losses: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
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Attacker Units: 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 625 500 1.250 20
Losses: 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 625 500 1.250 20

Defender Units: 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 270 170 90 15
Losses: 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 270 170 90 15
Click to expand...

It just changes everything, and makes farming less important, 'cuz you'll lose most of your troops for ppl who're spiking, or are inactive..
Maybe that means I suck, and maybe I'm a noob, but that's just my point of view..
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Driving players out of the game pre second village, does nothing for player retention for the game. There's a large percentage of players that come into a new world, get beaten out by experienced players, because they don't have a clue, and never come back to play another world, why would they, when they aren't given the tools to succeed past the first week?

Enhancing the tutorial, to give them some survive-ability so they can learn some of the nuances of the game is what is necessary to grow the player base, and to give people an overall good experience so they'll continue to play. If you start building your village, and have some success and get taken out, your likely to try again. If you have absolutely zero success, your more likely to move on, and try some other game.

In truth, as much as I agree the tutorial needs to be improved upon for this very first stage, I think we've seriously missed the boat in finding ways of teaching new players the finer nuances of the game. There should be another tutorial when a person first enables his gifted premium, showing him how to add a script, giving them an idea of how to use the different overviews, the mass recruit & overview build / overview tech screens, in directing them to the guide & script compilations in our community forums.

By giving players a push to the tools, and ways of learning the game at a higher level, you aren't entirely doing it for them, but you are giving them the means to learn it on their own. Learning through experience is a huge part of what builds a player to a higher level, but first impressions mean a lot, and if a players first experience is an utter failure, with not even a glimmer of hope in it, they aren't coming back to find the right experience to help them learn.
 

marcus the mad

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Camelgamer said:
You're true about the more competition part, I can't say anything else. But the start is (to me) one of the most important things of the world. I already hate it that everyone starts spiking with their spear, but what do you think if everyone starts spiking with their pali? I don't know about you and your start, but a pali simply destroys your own spear and pali. Which means that we all got to start upgrading our mines, else we will be spiked, and then I'm not even talking about when the protection is gone, how am i supposed to farm all players, when they all have a pali standing.. They should learn that themselves..

I don't know about you, but I don't think this is fun to happen at the start..





It just changes everything, and makes farming less important, 'cuz you'll lose most of your troops for ppl who're spiking, or are inactive..
Maybe that means I suck, and maybe I'm a noob, but that's just my point of view..
Click to expand...

Who the hell spikes with their pally? Granted, it'd work great, but still, its farming equipment.

Also: your numbers are a bit off. A pally kills the five spears and pally, okay, sucks ass? But the LC being killed by spear and pally is perfectly normal: LC is weak against spear, tag a pally along and you'd a bunch more than those 5 you sent. Besides, I usually have them cleared by axe before I hit with my LC
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
marcus the mad said:
Who the hell spikes with their pally? Granted, it'd work great, but still, its farming equipment.
Click to expand...

That's it, who spikes with pally? Noobs do, they just spike with the troops they got.

And yes, you guys are right about that the tutorial should be changed, don't get me wrong, I DO want other people become better, and I DO want more players on servers. And maybe it's the right idea to tell them about a pally, maybe, but it stinks, because then i can't farm as good as i want :( Maybe I'm just selfish, but I understand what you guys are saying, and think it's a good thing for other players, except for the farmers.. ^^
 

marcus the mad

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Well, don't tell them to spike? Normally, a noob (a real one) wouldn't even know what a spike/farming is, so its kinda... weird to suggest they'll use it that way.
 

DeletedUser1605

Guest
Camelgamer said:
I don't know about you, but I don't think this is fun to happen at the start..





It just changes everything, and makes farming less important, 'cuz you'll lose most of your troops for ppl who're spiking, or are inactive..
Maybe that means I suck, and maybe I'm a noob, but that's just my point of view..
Click to expand...

Well, with all due respect, it's the same way the newbies feel when we turn them into a farm and stop their game dead in it's tracks ^_-

//mpw
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Camelgamer said:
That's it, who spikes with pally? Noobs do, they just spike with the troops they got.

And yes, you guys are right about that the tutorial should be changed, don't get me wrong, I DO want other people become better, and I DO want more players on servers. And maybe it's the right idea to tell them about a pally, maybe, but it stinks, because then i can't farm as good as i want :( Maybe I'm just selfish, but I understand what you guys are saying, and think it's a good thing for other players, except for the farmers.. ^^
Click to expand...

I've been rank one on 7 worlds and when I do spike, I use my pally.
 

DeletedUser73

Guest
We had the same idea and are working on a new tutorial. Looking forward to your thoughts on it.
 

DeletedUser1605

Guest
Typhi said:
We had the same idea and are working on a new tutorial. Looking forward to your thoughts on it.
Click to expand...

That's great news! Sorry to be redundant, I guess I should have searched better :/

Oh! What of my idea to release what tool is used to create the Tutorials? That way the community could take the world load off your hands and build the Tutorials for you :)

//mpw
 

DeletedUser1706

Guest
AreYouKidden said:
In truth, as much as I agree the tutorial needs to be improved upon for this very first stage, I think we've seriously missed the boat in finding ways of teaching new players the finer nuances of the game. There should be another tutorial when a person first enables his gifted premium, showing him how to add a script, giving them an idea of how to use the different overviews, the mass recruit & overview build / overview tech screens, in directing them to the guide & script compilations in our community forums.
Click to expand...
The only problem with that is just about every script gets knocked out at every update.
 

DeletedUser1021

Guest
The simply way to solve this is to gift the player with 5 axes not 5 spears.
 
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