Rejected: Moving nobleman like paladin

[DeletedUser1375]

Hello everyone,

first of all, I want so say that I'm portuguese so try to understand what I mean to write x)

well, my ideia is the following:

I'm sure that all of the players in TW have a certain time fo the game, nobleman that are in a position of the map far away of a village that they can conquer.

So, we could do the following: we could move the nobleman (like the paladin) to a village of our choise so we can conquer a village more easier...

Of course that we have some disadvantages and they are:

- As we move the nobleman from a village to another, we gain space in the farm but we also need that space on the destination village;

- we can only move one nobleman by day;

- the nobleman can only be moved if the destination village has academy;


Thank you for reading ;D

Best Regards.

 

[marcus the mad]

At first I thought no way, but then I read the limitations and thought it'd be doable.

I'd change that 'one nobleman a day' to 'one nobleman at a time' because in later game, lots of players have multiple clusters that are (sometimes far) over a day away.

other than that, you can just kill your noblemen and rebuild them at the village, but that costs a bit.

 

[DeletedUser1375]

other than that, you can just kill your noblemen and rebuild them at the village, but that costs a bit.

That's why i put this ideia... it costs a lot killing my nobleman to rebuild it again...

With this, we would move them as easy as supporting...

I'd change that 'one nobleman a day' to 'one nobleman at a time' because in later game, lots of players have multiple clusters that are (sometimes far) over a day away.

So you're saying that in a certain point we could move multiple nobleman at the same time cause since they are more than one day far away, while I moved a nobleman yerterday and he didn't get to the destiny yet, i can move another today, no matter if the another is in the destination village or not.

I don't know if I agree... i think that is good to mode a nobleman per day istead of one nobleman at a time cause in later game we do have a lot of nobleman in multiple places that we would like to move them and in your way it could spent a lot of time moving them all. Unless we could move multiple nobleman if they are in the same village... what do you think?

I'm sorry for my bad english because i spent a lot of time without writing :S

 

[DeletedUser]

One nobleman at a time and only one per village

 

[DeletedUser1021]

I don't see why there need to be a limitation on the amount of noblemen, if the village target village is capable of making nobles.
If you send eg. four nobles to support a village,they each could be allowed to enter the academy que there
and the time taken to relocate being the same as the time to build a noble.
This is then no different to what it would be if the resources had been sent there and then the nobles built.
If fact this method would be slower than killing off the noblemen because of the travel times.

But,is this really that good an idea.Nobleman are troops, and no other troops are allowed to relocate like this.

 

[DeletedUser1328]

overall i agree to this idea, because theres a difference between nobles and other troops, normal troops you can recruit as many as you want, while nobles (similar to the pala) have a restriction from which you cant make any more (for the moment) but need to kill some if you want to have some in another village
and ok, to need free farm space in the target village and an academy, all right thats logical

but:
i disagree to the number per day restriction at all..
1 noble a day?? i think then it doesnt make sense..

maybe in the very early game, when you have 2 nobles and after nobling a village and having 1 noble left, you want to move this one^^ but later you usually build 4 nobles a village and after nobling, 3 are left...so why should you now wait 3 days to move 1 noble a day, to have them after this time in another village?^^ i guess noone would do that, 3 days where you cant use the nobles, just not to have to pay the cost again..
in later game, the costs doesnt matter at all, and when you would want to move nobles, because you nobled some villages in one area and now want to have them in another area, you need to move like 20 or so, minimum^^

another problem is the time, how long should it last to move them? in my opinion it shouldnt last as long, as the nobles would walk to the village, because of the same problem i mentioned above: who would let his nobles send on a way of hours or even days between his villages, while he cant use them in this time? this would also only want to be used in very early game then, when youre villages are right next to each other, and when the cost for this 1 noble really does matter...
i think, it should then be the same as just now for the pala: moving lasts as long as building it new would last, no matter how far away the village is...
then it would make sense, and be used!

or did you want to suggest this feature to only be used in the very early game? because as you suggested, i think maybe the first weeks it would be used, but then not at all anymore...


so my conclusion:

moving nobles yes, but:
no restriction for the number and:
moving time = building time

then im fine with it^^

 

[marcus the mad]

You make sense

 

[DeletedUser]

Moving Time != Build Time

The problem here is that a player could take his nobles, 90 hours away, and noble you from 1 hour away, 1 1/2 hours later. He's shaving off 87 hours here. On top of that, he can relocate them in 1 1/2 hours to avoid incoming nukes, or literally hide his nobles on the other side of his empire until he was ready to attack a player. The travel time makes a person actually have to plan these things out, and if they plan it wrong, they lose the use of those nobles for an extended period of time.

I like the idea of moveable nobles, I think to move them from one village, to another, it should take their travel time.
If you don't want to take 90 hours to move your noble, then don't move him, plain and simple. (90 hours is of course an example).

The option could be handled through the academy screen, allowing you to enter the co-ords there to move a noble to a differetn village.

One question I have:
Can a noble be killed which is in transit to another village?
Or will this become the noble dodge tactic, instead of using barbs around.

 

[marcus the mad]

One question I have:
Can a noble be killed which is in transit to another village?
Or will this become the noble dodge tactic, instead of using barbs around.

Hmm, obviously, the regular move rules should be taken into account. If the village it origins from is nobled during transit, it should dissapear.
If the village it travels to is nobled, we're just talking in support here.

I also think we should keep the travel times, building time to relocate could be cut in half though. Lets say the pally needs to build a new home, the noble just takes his stuff and moves into the acad.

 

[DeletedUser1328]

Moving Time != Build Time

The problem here is that a player could take his nobles, 90 hours away, and noble you from 1 hour away, 1 1/2 hours later. He's shaving off 87 hours here.

err, no?
when until now someone wants to have a noble in a village which is 90 hours away from where it is at the moment, he kills it at the neighbouring village and builds it new..building time would be the same, and he would only have saved 35 minuten (or whatever depending on the speed) for killing it

 

[DeletedUser]

Then I guess you need to address the concerns of packet, vs coins worlds.

Being on a packet world, I'm not killing a noble off, to rebuild it elsewhere because I'm losing 1700 packets (x83,000 resources) to rebuild it. (late game account)
What is the point of even putting this idea into a coin world, so you can save yourself 140k resources, and 35 minutes?

This sort of change impacts the packet world the most, because of obvious noble cost reasons.
So taking that into consideration, I believe it needs to take the duration of his travel to get him there.
And considering you've already got an alternative on coin worlds, I really don't see it needing to be any different there.

On a coin world, it'll just become a resources vs time decision, what's more important to you.
On a packet world, no one is ever going to choose rebuying a new full priced noble at 1700 packets.

 

[DeletedUser1328]

ok, youre right, on package worlds you wouldnt kill it..

but: would it really be that bad, to be possible to have 1 noble somewhere in like 3 hours, as on coins worlds it already worlds by killing them?
i mean, when you havent build them yet, on package worlds, this is also already possible in this time...just build some new and you got a new noble soon
so i dont see your point in "the enemy has soo many nobles in no time right next to my village^^", it doesnt make it so much faster to get nobles there^^

and youre right, on coin worlds it would be a decision ress vs time, but i say as soon as the very first time of the game is over, nearly noone would choose to wait so long because then the ress doesnt matter anymore..
so why implement a feature in a way which makes you only use in a very short time of the game?

 

[marcus the mad]

Well, then this is a change that would help a lot of players in packet worlds.

Though you shouldn't forget the impact on coin worlds either, it might not be as major, but very important too. I wouldn't say its a huge thing early in game or at the end phase (when two tribes need to fight it out or so)
but the mid game fase (multiple tribes, clusters all over the place mixed with enemies) will get a relevant change.

 

[DeletedUser1375]

I think that this option could be made since the beggining of the game Is so usefull in that period like in advanced worlds.

sorry but i didn't understood why you are talking in coins and package worlds... whats the different? explain me like i was a little child x) (my english is worst that i thought xD)

i also think that the time we spent to move the nobleman is the same as the attack/support time cause it make no sense if it is less or more than that... the same happens with the others troops unless they go with the paladin.

is good to know that you like this ideia i also putted it in out portuguese forum but i thought it would be better to be here i you want i can translate what they said in our forum to post here and so we have more things to discuss.

 

[DeletedUser1328]

sorry but i didn't understood why you are talking in coins and package worlds... whats the different? explain me like i was a little child x) (my english is worst that i thought xD)

until now when you want to have the noble in another village, then:

-on coin worlds you kill a noble, lose 40000 50000 50000 resources, and build it new, then its "moved" to the other village (only thing which change is that you must not kill it anymore)
-on package world you cannot kill it easily (because you would lose veeery much resources, all packages which you pay for the noble), so there you cannot really have it in another village

so this will be a small change for coin worlds, but a big change for package worlds

i also think that the time we spent to move the nobleman is the same as the attack/support time cause it make no sense if it is less or more than that... the same happens with the others troops unless they go with the paladin.

the paladin also needs 6 (or 2 or whatever) hours to every village, no matter how far the way is

and do you think someone would let a noble walk for example 24 hours? (on coin worlds)
when he just could kill it and have it in 3 hours in the other village?

when you have some more villages, the ressources for building it new doesnt matter, 40k 50k 50k is nothing then, so why wait so long? so you wouldnt use it but the idea is so good that maybe we can make it in a way in which you like to use it

 

[DeletedUser1375]

ah, thanks! now i've understood

yes, you're sure but you're forgeting something:

the nobleman's time to recruit. imagine this: you have 4 nobleman in a village. you kill them to recruit them in another one. you will spent time as well... and if you want to kill more nobleman?? it would spent a lot of time... so in my way, you also lose time but without losing resources.

you also said that in an advanced world we don't care about the amout of resources we spent on nobleman. yes, that's true but think better: in this way you save 1 coin for example. after a while you will have saved a good amout of recourses to make another nobleman instead of just killing them.

i apologize again for my bad english x) loool just try to understand ok?

 

[DeletedUser1328]

yes, if you build them all in 1 village it will take some more time to rebuild them..
but this could also be realized when moving them (so that you dont have 10 nobles moved to 1 village in a short time)

so the moving could look just like building, and if you move 2 you will have a "queue" where one after another is moved for each 3 hours (or 1 or.. , as the buildtime)

but youre wrong that you save 1 coin!
you never save a coin..the 100. noble always costs the same number of coins, no matter how many you killed or moved between building them..when you kill 1 and build it again, the next after that costs as much as if you didnt kill one...

(in packages system you save some, but there you also save many as already mentioned..)

 

[DeletedUser]

ok, youre right, on package worlds you wouldnt kill it..

but: would it really be that bad, to be possible to have 1 noble somewhere in like 3 hours, as on coins worlds it already worlds by killing them?

I think from a selfish point of view, of course I'd like to move all of my nobles in only 3 hours.

But I'm trying to look past my own selfish needs, and not destroy some of the strategy that was brought into the game with package worlds. You actually have to attempt not to lock your nobles in, or be smart about where you put them, due to the sheer amount of resources it'd take to kill them, and move them.

The other issue here is that if it only takes 3 hours to move your noble, then what's to stop you from building 6 nobles in 6 different villages (1 1/2 hours to build), then moving them all to the same village (all at the same time). It'd only take 4 1/2 hours, instead of 9 hours (1.5 * 6).

so why implement a feature in a way which makes you only use in a very short time of the game?

My thought to that is, why implement a feature to replace something that already exists in the game at a slight cost?

 

[DeletedUser1328]

I think from a selfish point of view, of course I'd like to move all of my nobles in only 3 hours.

But I'm trying to look past my own selfish needs, and not destroy some of the strategy that was brought into the game with package worlds. You actually have to attempt not to lock your nobles in, or be smart about where you put them, due to the sheer amount of resources it'd take to kill them, and move them.

when you think that its good to be forced to use them where you build them, then you should probably say that this is a bad idea for package worlds at all, because when you can move them (no matter how long it needs) it will "destroy" this part of the game, no matter if you see it as a positive or negative part
when you say moving them in a short time is bad because then you dont need to plan so much for not losing the lots of packages, you must also say this for if it lasts longer...

The other issue here is that if it only takes 3 hours to move your noble, then what's to stop you from building 6 nobles in 6 different villages (1 1/2 hours to build), then moving them all to the same village (all at the same time). It'd only take 4 1/2 hours, instead of 9 hours (1.5 * 6).

for coin worlds this already is like that if you "move" your nobles by killing, so no change there
and in package worlds its like this when you make new noblses! when your enemy has saved packages for some time and not build nobles in this time, and after that he needs nobles fast there, nothing will keep him now from building his nobles exactly as you described..

My thought to that is, why implement a feature to replace something that already exists in the game at a slight cost?

it already exists?^^ then i missed something
lol no, but i think the idea was that you neednt kill your nobles.. (as you do in coin worlds) but just can move them

as for the pala! for him the idea was for sure not to save the "huge" costs when killing him but to make it possible to use the pala as you want to, without needing to kill him every now and then...

 

[DeletedUser]

when you think that its good to be forced to use them where you build them, then you should probably say that this is a bad idea for package worlds at all, because when you can move them (no matter how long it needs) it will "destroy" this part of the game, no matter if you see it as a positive or negative part
when you say moving them in a short time is bad because then you dont need to plan so much for not losing the lots of packages, you must also say this for if it lasts longer...

My point was that it would be nice to be able to move those locked nobles, but I think it'd ruin any part of strategy if you could move them in 3 hours flat, from anywhere. Across my entire village spread on w32, it takes me 250 hours by noble to cover. That's a lot of days if I really want to move one to the front I'm nobling in currently. I'd really have to consider if I wanted him to travel that far. I also think if you send him to a village, and that village gets nobled in that travel time, that your noble should die, as he's been captured by the enemy. Yes the losses would be big, so hope you make the right decision on where to send it.

for coin worlds this already is like that if you "move" your nobles by killing, so no change there
and in package worlds its like this when you make new noblses! when your enemy has saved packages for some time and not build nobles in this time, and after that he needs nobles fast there, nothing will keep him now from building his nobles exactly as you described..

Your right, other than the time it takes to build however many nobles you need by 1.5 hours, so if you want to plant 6 somewhere, it's going to take 9 hours, and not 4.5.
That said, I don't consider those who don't play the game, and just store packets to be the ones to design the game for. Right now I have 27 locked nobles, I'd love to have them back, and don't have the packets to make another 27 more sadly so I can't just pop them in anywhere. That said, I still think there needs to be some sort of side effect of being able to move these nobles, and to me that side effect is the amount of time.

it already exists?^^ then i missed something
lol no, but i think the idea was that you neednt kill your nobles.. (as you do in coin worlds) but just can move them

I realize the idea was that you didn't have to kill your nobles, but who cares? Kill a noble, and rebuild it on a coin world. It takes less time than what your suggesting, but costs you 140k in resources. To me that's a solution already existing at a small cost.

as for the pala! for him the idea was for sure not to save the "huge" costs when killing him but to make it possible to use the pala as you want to, without needing to kill him every now and then...

Pally's make sense, you can only have 1, anything else would have rendered him useless.
That said, I've always questioned if 3 hours wasn't too short of a time, I juggle my pally around in defense all the time, getting my 30% bonuses on spears.